Comment by Brixtone

9/22/2007 @ 3:35 am

You didn’t follow through on your claims of fundamental flaws in Bioshock. What is fundamentally wrong with the game? Can you not walk? Do the guns not work?

When you say that “it turns out I’ve been playing the game wrong”, that is an assumption you’ve made for yourself. And furthermore, I haven’t heard or read any claims that the game cannot be finished without dealing with Big Daddies and Little Sisters. While I’m surprised by this take on the game, I don’t think there’s such a thing as playing it wrong. I suggest you continue as you have been. If you reach a point that proves too difficult, perhaps you’ll be tempted to harvest Adam from a Little Sister. And if that does happen, don’t mark it down as a game flaw, it’s simply the environment that you must deal with.

While I will agree that the narrative of the game does put you on “rails” in going along with Atlas’ requests, I don’t feel like anything is lost from either the plot line or the gaming experience as a whole. If his communiques weren’t used to nudge the player along, there would be complaints from players who didn’t know what to do next. Not every game can be open ended, especially not those that focus so heavily on narrative. As for any hype that you may have read (please cite sources) stating “you’d be able to play the game a million times and never play it the same way”, it wouldn’t be the first time hype about a game has been wrong. There are, in fact, many ways to play Bioshock (your route being one that I had not even considered) and I appreciate the game’s flexibility in play style and outcome.

I don’t know what to tell you about the voiceover in this game. While I will admit that they could’ve dampened the background audio a bit more while audio diaries are playing, I didn’t miss anything. And if you think the voice acting in this game is bad, I challenge you to find a game that does it better. Consider an ear exam.

Finally, I printed out your claims of the story being constricting and poorly constructed and urinated on them. A story is a story, and you have no right to claim ownership on its construction, pacing, and outcome. I’m not sure why you say that it is poorly constructed. What would you have done differently? And before we go any further on this sub-topic, let’s not forget that you missed a key piece of the story within the first 10 minutes of the game.

I am interested to hear the outcome of your “peaceful” approach to the game. But you might do best to start over, keeping your eyes and ears open. There is a great piece of work here, but keep in mind that a good interactive adventure requires participation on the part of the player.

Comment by Tritone

9/22/2007 @ 10:33 am

Having now finished the game twice (once on PC, once on console) in relatively short succession–which I almost never feel compelled to do–I would hestitate to try and defend Bioshock as a flawless work of gaming art. Imperfect it certainly is, but Bioshock has to rank as one of the best examples of a game in which art direction, technology, gameplay, audio, and story are given equal, loving attention.

Don’t fault the dog for not being a cat. Bioshock is not, after all, an open-ended RPG like Oblivion (which, to be fair, had a very linear main quest line) but essentially a corridor shooter with a greater bit of choice and freedom than usual in the genre. It also a game which obscures, and then justifies, the existence of lack of freedom in a plot twist which is genuinely surprising. I am speaking here about lack of choice in the moral/ethical dimension. In terms of gameplay mechanics, I think there is a huge amount of freedom. You could finish the game never having harvested a Little Sister, using only the wrench and your Electro-bolt.

The story is poorly constructed? Most genre fiction (horror/sci fi/mystery) requires a suspension of disbelief but I think the storytelling in Bioshock is a great example of how our hobby continues to mature. To me, the dialogue and voice acting had a theatrical quality, which I appreciated.

Not Game of the Year material? Well, I’m looking at a very large stack of console and PC games and I don’t see anything else that comes close. Of course, we still have some triple A titles yet to come. Maybe Halo 3 will provide that elusive mix of pitch-perfect dialogue, watertight plot, and player freedom that Bioshock fails at delivering.

Comment by Brixtone

9/22/2007 @ 2:22 pm

“Maybe Halo 3 will provide that elusive mix of pitch-perfect dialogue, watertight plot, and player freedom that Bioshock fails at delivering.”

You just broke the sarcasm meter.

Comment by Ruckus

9/22/2007 @ 7:42 pm

1) it’s called a sarcasmometer, Jeff, you unscientific yabo.

2) Ryan, your opinion is totally valid. You don’t like the game, that’s your decision. That having been said, I would like to take this opportunity to make fun of you. Didn’t this whole conversation start because you complained that the game was too hard? We suggested that perhaps it was too hard because you hadn’t powered up by harvesting Adam. Did you have to go back and do so? No. That was entirely your decision to make.

3) The fact that you don’t trust Atlas and you feel angry and used for being forced into doing his bidding is a testament to how good the writing is. If this was a real situation that is exactly how you would feel: used, distrustful, and extremely cornered. I think that any video games that manipulate you like that deserves some props.

4) A plot is defined as a predetermined series of events that tell a story or lead to a resolution. If you want a game where you can do whatever you want, go back to playing WoW, which has no plot. The rest of us quit reading Choose-Your-Own adventure books when we were twelve. Then again, the rest of us also quit reading Garfield when we were twelve, and we know how you feel about that.

5) “Porthole Pete and his Chris Hansen Bait” made me LO.

Comment by Scrimpnut

9/22/2007 @ 9:01 pm

I apologize that you don’t know how to read, Brixtone but I’ll give you an abridged version of the fundamental flaws I succintly presented in my original post:

Flaw 1: Audio recordings very hard to understand. You have to go back and read the transcripts. This takes away from the immersion into the game. In addition, I talked to someone else today who’s playing Bioshock and agreed with me that the recordings are often poorly enunciated. So there.

Flaw 2: The accents of the voice actors. They’re terrible. Period.

Flaw 3: I like the story. I just find it a little too hard to follow and restrictive in that you’re always doing what Atlas wants you to do and nothing else.

Flaw 4: I find the movement in the game much looser than in shooters like Gears of War and GRAW. I’ve slowed the movement in the options but it still seems not quite as precise.

Your rebuttal has a lot of valid points and I understand them all but you lose all your credibility with this gem, “A story is a story, and you have no right to claim ownership on its construction, pacing, and outcome.” Really? So I guess I can never criticize a movie, book, or video game again if I don’t like the story. See, I do have ownership over the story of the video game. Because, if the storyline doesn’t enthrall me, then I discard it. I’m not saying the game should fit what I want it to do. I’m saying that what it is has to appeal to me otherwise I will move on.

The epilogue to all of this is that I have started over from scratch with some modifications. In loading up the game with another Bioshock player watching, he noted that I had the game set at an extremely dark setting and that could be why I’ve missed some of the details. I have adjusted accordingly. I also will have the setting at medium difficulty from the start as well and will choose to be a rescuer. It was also pointed out to me what all those little holes in the wall are. Apparently, the little sisters run and hide into them. I still don’t find that a satisfying answer to where they go for safety once they’ve been rescued.

In response to the “Don’t fault the dog for not being like the cat” comment, let’s be serious. As objective as we all claim to be, all forms of entertainment media are judged in comparison to previous works. Every MMO that comes out will be compared to World of Warcraft. Every shooter is compared to a predecessor. Every game that supposes to have a rich, enveloping storyline will be compared to previous games of that genre. It’s not that I want Bioshock to me an MMO with an open ended story line. Not at all. What I’m saying is that it’s rather apparent to the intelligent examiner that the game’s big picture storyline was carefully conceived and the rungs that support the storyline ladder were not thought of as meticulously (i.e. the safety of the little sisters)

Again, I like the overall story of Bioshock. I actually think it’s fantastic. It just has fundamental flaws that to me make the game a good game - a B+ or A- game, but not a world beater.

For me, that will and always will be Super Monkey Collider.

Comment by Brixtone

9/22/2007 @ 9:36 pm

“Flaw 1: Audio recordings very hard to understand.”

Your claim is by far in the minority on this issue and I’d certainly like to hear from this someone else who shares your opinion. Please invite him/her to the site to discuss.

“Flaw 2: The accents of the voice actors. They’re terrible. Period.”

This is a subjective matter of detail, not a fundamental game flaw. Once again you’re in the minority with this claim. I know your primary gripe with the accents is the voice of Atlas. Before going further with this gripe, you might want to know that the voice actor playing Atlas is, in fact, an Irishman. But you could still email him and tell him that his Irish accent is terrible.

“Flaw 3: I like the story. I just find it a little too hard to follow and restrictive in that you’re always doing what Atlas wants you to do and nothing else.”

I do wish you would expand on what about this story is hard to follow. As for the restrictive nature of the story, I’m sorry but just as not every novel is a Choose Your Own Adventure, not every game has an open ended story. And I hate to break this to you, but there’s no such thing as a game with an open ended story (yet). While many games offer a choice of very similar paths with a choice here and there, none of them are truly open-ended.

“Flaw 4: I find the movement in the game much looser than in shooters like Gears of War and GRAW. I’ve slowed the movement in the options but it still seems not quite as precise.”

Now that could be noted as a fundamental game flaw. Still, I think you might just need practice with aiming using a console controller.

“So I guess I can never criticize a movie, book, or video game again if I don’t like the story.”

You missed my point entirely. You have every right to criticize any medium as you see fit. You do not, however, have the right to think you should have any say in how an existing media is constructed. Judge the work that exists, not the work that might have been.

I am somewhat disappointed that you have changed your play style. While I am pleased that you will be keeping an eye and ear out for the story this go-round, I was keen to hear how things would have turned out on your mission of mercy. And please note, that Little Sisters will not necessarily be safe. One of them was gunned down by a splicer almost immediately after I had rescued her. Rapture is a dangerous place.

Finally, I would recommend that you reserve your comments about the detail of the storyline until you finish the game. At 50% completion, half the answers are still coming. And since I’ve “lost my credibility”, I’ll stop talking so you can get splicing, you whiny bitch.

Comment by Ruckus

9/22/2007 @ 9:46 pm

“What I’m saying is that it’s rather apparent to the intelligent examiner that the game’s big picture storyline was carefully conceived and the rungs that support the storyline ladder were not thought of as meticulously”

Nice. Who exactly are these intelligent examiners? Are you conversing with game-playing doctors on the matter? Oh wait, that’s right, you don’t think doctors are smart. You should have gone straight out and said “if you disagree with me, you’re dumb.”

Comment by Staque

9/22/2007 @ 10:08 pm

I haven’t played the game yet… [No PC, nor 360 ]

That being said I don’t know a little about the game.

Needless to say I am not going to comment on anything except this:

Who cares if the Little Sisters run off once you kill the Big Daddies. They can survive. Look at Newt she survived 2-3 months surrounded by Xenomorphs, I am sure the Little Sisters can survive for a couple of hours.

If that isn’t a good enough reason, then consider this… Scrimpnut you are only condoning the incestuous relationship by not killing the Big Daddies you sick perv.

Comment by Tritone

9/22/2007 @ 11:02 pm

“What I’m saying is that it’s rather apparent to the intelligent examiner that the game’s big picture storyline was carefully conceived and the rungs that support the storyline ladder were not thought of as meticulously”

Well now, that’s a pretty valid standard for evaluating a story. Trouble is, virtually no great work of literature, film or entertainment holds up under Scrimpnut’s Standard of Excellence. Take the Bible–a relatively influential piece of writing. Pretty strong in the “big picture storyline” dept but in terms of detail and the plot “rungs”–not so much. Or, Shakespeare’s “Hamlet.” It’s had its share of proponents but TS Eliot, for one, thought it was crap due, in part, to the inconsistent dialogue and sketchy character motivation.

Since it is true that we evaluate a work entertainment by comparing it to other similar examples, I’d be interested in hearing Scrimpnut’s list of games that fulfill his criteria more successfully, as I’d like to play them.

Comment by Ruckus

9/23/2007 @ 12:22 am

I recommend you start with the triple-A media juggernaut known as “Fatty Bear’s Fun Pack”.

Comment by Scrimpnut

9/23/2007 @ 11:04 am

Oh, somehow I knew the “intelligent examiner” comment would elicit such rage. I was actually LO’ing while I wrote it. But let’s back up.

Jeff, your definition of fundamental flaws is in itself, flawed. You’re saying the only one of my criticisms that qualifies as a fundamental flaw is the loose movement of the game. You’re confusing technical flaws and fundamental flaws. We’re talking fundamental flaws here. I can send you a dictionary if you’d like. I think you’ve used Wikipedia one too many times as your end-all, be-all source for information.

ANY fundamental flaw is a matter of subjection. The AMC Pacer is a perfect example. That gorgeous bubble design was one of the primary and FUNDAMENTAL reasons the car did not sell well. But some people liked the way the Jetson’s car looked. So while subjective, the appearance of the Pacer was a fundamental flaw at the same time. Swish.

Let’s get to the poor accents I discussed in the game. Atlas’s is one of the least offensive to me although you’re revelation that he is Irish makes my point for me in that when we discussed earlier in the week what nationality we thought he might be, you said Brit. Again, swish for me. It’s more the accents on the recordings. Tanenbaum and some of the other German accents are overdone and sound cartoonish. I’m waiting for Rainier Wolfcastle to show up. “THE PLASMIDS. THEY DO NOTHING!!!!!”

As for criticizing something for what it is and not what I want it to be, I agree, that’s what I should AND always do. However, criticism always considers the subject matter’s predecessors. And don’t for a minute tell me that Bioshock is this one-of-a-kind game that has nothing to be compared to. Bioshock is Marathon with better graphics and nothing else. Yet, in Marathon the story was well constructed from start to finish. Jeff, I don’t know how to tell you how I feel about the story without divulging too much storyline to people who haven’t played. What I’ll say is that in Marathon, I always had a sense of what I needed to do within the shroud of mystery that Durandal and Leela presented in their often cryptic messages. I really don’t feel like I’m working for any goal in Bioshock other than the ones I have set in my head. Now, perhaps the game is meant to be like an M. Night Shyamalan book where I don’t know what I’ve done til the end of the game. If this is true, than 2K will have failed because games are all about the journey whereas in movies, you can get away with the huge twist in the end. “The Village” and “Goolah in the Water” notwithstanding.

Moreover, if storyline criticism is so subjective, who are we to differentiate between the quality of Halo 3 and Bioshock. I’m not saying the Halo 3 storyline is or will be better but if it’s so subjective, then why do we discuss storyline at all? It shouldn’t even be included in reviews. Only technical issues should be discussed because only those are fundamental to the game. Oh wait, that’s right. I forgot. That’s nonsense.

Box Score: Scrimpnut 11- 14 FG, 9-10 FT, 31 pts. and a sweet victory

Comment by Scrimpnut

9/23/2007 @ 1:45 pm

Also, this excerpt from an interview with Ken Levine in May of 2006 sheds some light into whether or not you can finish the game in the manner I was suggesting…

IGN: But you’re also put in the position of making changes to yourself, right? And why are you doing this? What’s compelling you to take Adam to change yourself? Are you trapped and is this the only way you’re able to do it?

Ken Levine: Well, we don’t force players to take this stuff. They can try to get through the game without it. I don’t think they’ll get that far. It’s the same conundrum that the people in Rapture are in, which is, “OK, I’m going to stay human and I’m not going to last that long.” And that’s the same position the players are in. And if you don’t, you’re going to get your butt handed to them and get killed. That doesn’t happen in a binary sense. We don’t say, “If you don’t take this stuff, you’re dead.” I haven’t thought about this in this way, and I’m so not promoting this as a feature, but if somebody was amazing at the game, they could just get through with just weapons and no plasmids whatsoever. But I think it would be tough.

Looks like I made a good choice in starting over.

Comment by Brixtone

9/23/2007 @ 4:51 pm

Fundamental: adjective - serving as, or being an essential part of, a foundation or basis; basic; underlying: fundamental principles; the fundamental structure.

Before you play the dictionary card, maybe you should check your work. Or does quality of an accent actually seem like an essential component of a game? I imagine there’s a deaf man out there somewhere who finished Bioshock.

“ANY fundamental flaw is a matter of subjection.” Any person with a better than average IQ and an adult-sized penis would realize that this sentence is utterly ridiculous. Seriously, it’s just nonsense.

“Atlas’s is one of the least offensive to me” - How’s the short term memory treating you over there? You brought up Atlas’ accent time and time again. Remember, there are witnesses on this one. And yes, he’s Irish meaning that he’s a resident of the British Isles and therefore a Brit. Read a map.

“Yet, in Marathon the story was well constructed from start to finish.” - Make up your mind. In your last post, the story of Bioshock was “fantastic”. It’s actually quite amusing that you brought up Marathon, a first-person shooter that is completely linear, has no choice in outcome, and is completely directed by an overseeing AI computer whose directives you have no choice but to follow.

Thank you for posting the comment from Ken Levine, that actually sheds significant light on the subject. Now who’s going to try to do it?

When I think of the time we could have spend playing games instead of typing back and forth on a website, I cry.

Comment by Ruckus

9/23/2007 @ 4:53 pm

Congratulations!

I think you’re confusing what a fundamental flaw is. The perceived flaw is that the game is bad. The fundamental flaw is that you have no idea what you’re doing or what you’re talking about.

Looks like I made a good choice in starting over.

For someone who was so determined not to to Atlas’s bidding, you sure as hell rolled over fast for Ken Levine. Bite the pillow Ryan, it’ll be over soon.

Comment by Brixtone

9/23/2007 @ 5:07 pm

I’m hardly even done re-reading my comment and Ruckus posts again. What is this, some kind of internet pile-on?

Scrimp truly does deserve congrats for inciting this much discussion. And can’t we all agree that the only way to settle this dispute is down at The Docks?

Comment by Scrimpnut

9/23/2007 @ 5:20 pm

Good to know that audio and sound quality aren’t fundamental parts of a video game. I’ll make sure not to tell any video game audio directors I know. Wouldn’t want to hurt their feelings.

As for the idea that all fundamental flaws are subjective is nonsensical, that is nonsense. And yes, that sentence is also nonsense but you know what I mean. Are you telling me that a fundamental flaw in a game is one that is 100% agreed upon? Because if not, than the flaw is subjective. Of course, you just disagreed with my statement and gave no proof. Nice job. Perhaps you can land a job on Court TV since you don’t do any fundamental work for video games.

I DO think the story in Bioshock is fantastic. What I have a problem with are some of the details in the game which are poorly constructed to support the original story you are presented. As for Marathon being linear, yes, it was…like Bioshock. Yet Bioshock has a much greater amount of technology to work with yet the linear nature remains. Hence the disappointment therein.

Also, concerning Atlas being a Brit because he’s part of the British Isles, please. The British hate the Irish and the Irish hate the British. You know, they used to fight a lot. It’s in history books. Although those kind of books are fact books and we know your aversion to them. An Irishman is as much a brit as I am a Bolivian.

As for rolling over for Ken Levine, I decided to start over yesterday. I found the article today. So he just added proof to my pudding, that’s all.

Comment by Brixtone

9/23/2007 @ 5:33 pm

Picture this: You start a video game and the controls do not work at all. The game accepts no input from your mouse, keyboard, or controller. This is a non-subjective and fundamental game flaw.

Regarding the details of the story, I’d still hold judgment until you finish the game. More details are coming.

In conclusion, we’re arguing petty semantics because that’s what we do.

Comment by Ruckus

9/23/2007 @ 6:22 pm

The British hate the Irish and the Irish hate the British. You know, they used to fight a lot. It’s in history books.

You know who else used to fight a lot? The North and the South. The last time I checked, Massachusetts and Louisiana are still in the same nation. That is also in fact books, but apparently fact books that Ryan has not read because he’s reading so many other fact books. Like the ones starring Garfield.

Scrimp truly does deserve congrats for inciting this much discussion.

Good point. While we’re at it we should congratulate George Bush because people talk a lot about Iraq and Hitler because people talked a lot about genocide.

In conclusion, Ryan = Hitler + Garfield - funny moustache. (Spelled in the British fashion, regardless of accent.)

Comment by Brixtone

9/23/2007 @ 7:09 pm

This is the 19th comment on this post. Just sayin’.

Comment by Ruckus

9/23/2007 @ 7:18 pm

Take your damn stat padding over to Battlefield, where that shit is condoned.

Comment by Scrimpnut

9/23/2007 @ 8:02 pm

That’s good. Chris thinks Great Britain and Ireland are the same country. You should take that info to Dublin and see how many potatoes get thrown at your groin. Nice Michigan edumuhcation. We don’t teach geography, history, or winning football.

One other thing I’m noticing about the game as I’m replaying it from the beginning. It seems that there are much less theatrics and dramatic moments as you go through the game. It may just be a mid-game lull but we’ll see. The first 10 minutes are so riveting but while the game thereafter is fun, it’s pretty vanilla.

Comment by Brixtone

9/23/2007 @ 8:05 pm

Nobody said that Great Britain and Ireland are the same country. You should quit playing Bioshock, it’s clearly making you miserable. Post #22.

Comment by Brixtone

9/23/2007 @ 8:08 pm

But again, we’re arguing semantics. Post #23.

Comment by Scrimpnut

9/23/2007 @ 8:28 pm

“Nobody said that Great Britain and Ireland are the same country.”

Actually, Chris implied it by comparing England and Ireland’s previous warring relationship to Louisiana and Massachusetts. The latter now both being part of one country.

Sigh, again with the illiteracy, Jeff.

Comment by Brixtone

9/23/2007 @ 8:33 pm

Sorry, I don’t do implications since we’re all about hard stated facts up in this house. Therefore, as you asked, I will sigh again about your illiteracy. This has been post #25.

Comment by Ruckus

9/24/2007 @ 1:17 am

My comment merely pointed out that conflict doesn’t make peoples part two different nations, nor even part of two different demographics. Your inability to understand my point is directly related to your inability to understand why you’re wrong.

#26, bitch.

Comment by Ruckus

9/24/2007 @ 1:24 am

Also, I found this gem in a government published tour guide to the United Kingdom:

The term “England” is sometimes erroneously used by both natives of England (the English) and those outside our country to refer to the United Kingdom. Natives of the other constituent nations of the U.K. [Editors note: England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales] find such usage offensive, so it is best avoided! Although there is no adjective for the “United Kingdom” the term “British” is acceptable

Game, set, match.

Comment by Scrimpnut

9/24/2007 @ 8:21 am

Nice. It’s good to know you get your concrete history lessons from Rick Steves.

Comment by Denalan

9/24/2007 @ 12:49 pm

I’ve gotta agree with Scrimpnut here.

While I also believe that Bioshock isn’t quite deserved of the “Game of the Year” status (mostly due to well-documented bugs that plague the PC version), Scrimpnut brings up some really valid points that you other folks seem to be glossing over.

1. Audio recordings that are hard to understand. The developer should have caught this early on and adjusted the volume accordingly. Since the recordings are key to the story, they should be very easy to understand.

2. Poor voice acting. I also agree with Scrimpnut–the voice acting is bad. The poor voice acting fits better in a game like Resident Evil or Dead Rising, but it doesn’t work well in Bioshock.

3. A story that’s too restrictive. This is a problem that plagues a lot of games. Most of the better games the past few years have included more freedom of choice, in my opinion.

4. The movement (controls) could be better. I’ve played portions of the Xbox 360 and PC versions, and I’ll have to agree, the default controls could be a lot better on both systems.

5. Major game flaw. This is the most important point that seems to have been overlooked: Scrimpnut has uncovered a major game flaw. The game should not allow you to play through almost the entire thing without realizing you’ve been playing the game wrong, or you’ve missed something. In most games you get stuck on a certain part, and you just work your way past that one area, or backtrack a small amount. You shouldn’t have to start completely over to complete the main part of the game.

True, some games have side quests or multiple endings which require starting over, but these either give you special power-ups on a second try, or aren’t key to finishing the game. Having to start over a 20+ hour game is pretty lame, IMHO.

From the IGN quote that Scrimpnut found, it seems like the developer knew some people would have trouble but didn’t realize the extent of the problem. I’d certainly call this a major game flaw.

Comment by Brixtone

9/24/2007 @ 4:50 pm

Denalan, you’ve taken us entirely back to square one, so I’ll follow suit.

“Audio recordings that are hard to understand” - Did you really not understand the audio recordings? I really just don’t hear this from anyone else.

“The poor voice acting fits better in a game like Resident Evil or Dead Rising” - What is poor about the voice acting in this game? And when is the last time you played Resident Evil? The quality of the voiceover in the titles mentioned is not even loosely comparable. Please provide an example of better voice acting in a video game.

“A story that’s too restrictive. This is a problem that plagues a lot of games. Most of the better games the past few years have included more freedom of choice, in my opinion.” - Who the hell says it’s a problem? Must every game from now on be an open ended adventure with dozens of choices in outcome? And your second statement here is patently false. Tell me, how’s the open ended storyline of Mario Kart DS working out for you?

“The default controls could be a lot better on both systems.” - But you could adjust them to your liking yes? So where’s the problem? I played with the default control setup and had no issues, but admittedly everyone’s style of play is different. That’s the beauty of including a settings screen. Use it.

“Scrimpnut has uncovered a major game flaw…The game should not allow you to play through almost the entire thing without realizing you’ve been playing the game wrong” - We have said this countless times, but nobody accused Scrimp of playing the game wrong nor does anyone (including Ken Levine) state that there is a wrong way to play the game. It was Scrimp’s choice to start the game over.

Comment by Denalan

9/24/2007 @ 7:03 pm

I took us back to square one because no one really addressed Scrimp’s arguments.

“Audio recordings that are hard to understand” — yes I think they could be much clearer, particularly since they’re so important to the storyline.

“Poor voice acting” — it’s bad enough that I think it detracts from immersion in the story. I last played a bit of Resident Evil a couple of years ago (where the bad voice acting makes the game seem more like a B-horror film), but I’ll agree that Resident Evil and Dead Rising aren’t comparable to Bioshock. Some games with good voice acting are Full Throttle, Starcraft, and You Don’t Know Jack. Someone told me the voice acting in Caesar IV was pretty good, but I haven’t had a chance to play it yet. In any case, IMHO good audio in a video game is extremely important, and can add a lot to (or detract from) the game’s overall experience.

“A story that’s too restrictive”–Games that have very strict storylines or has little variation during play — these kinds kinds of games have been created many times before. In my opinion, most of the recent games that are worth playing today allow for much more freedom of choice. MarioKart DS can even apply in this case, because the game shines best with its multiplayer capability–where the human element adds a large unknown to the outcome.

“Default controls could be better” - The mouse acceleration is difficult to adjust right on the PC version (a lot of people have been complaining about this). BTW, when the game crashes on the PC it sometimes resets all of your customized settings. Pain in the ass.

Regarding the game flaw, Ken Levine says (in reference to trying to get through the game without killing the Big Daddies and getting Adam): “They can try to get through the game without it. I don’t think they’ll get that far.” The truth is, Scrimpnut did get pretty far into the game and only then discovered that he needed to start the game over (or backtrack to nearly the beginning). IMHO, that’s a pretty big flaw in the game, and something that was overlooked by the developer.

Comment by Brixtone

9/24/2007 @ 7:24 pm

I don’t know who you think you are bringing all this calm and rational discourse up in here, Denalan.

We don’t seem to be lining up our thoughts when it comes to the restrictive story. Your argument for MarioKart DS could be applied equally to Bioshock. There are many different ways to approach the game regardless of how the story pans out. And I would suggest continuing to the end of the game to see how things can end up.

Scrimpnut didn’t discover that he needed to start over. He did so based on our surprise at his methods. If nobody else is willing to try the “No Daddy” method, I’ll take it upon myself to see if it’s possible.

Comment by Dodongo

9/24/2007 @ 8:48 pm

Man, I ain’t reading all this shit. Can someone summarize this mess and send me a graphic novel?

Comment by Tritone

9/25/2007 @ 1:03 am

Levine addressed the problems of hard-to-hear audio diaries on an interview on the GFW podcast. Basically, since the devlopers have no idea when the player will actually listen to the diaries (some players listen to them when all is quiet and they are safe, some during noisy battles, some while they’re hacking a machine) there is almost no way to guarantee that the environmental sounds won’t sometimes interfere. I believe they felt this was a viable tradeoff–yet another element of player freedom for some potential sacrifice in clarity. My personal experience was that I never had a problem hearing or understanding them.

As for voice acting…I was never distracted by lack of quality, as I have been in many recent MMOs and RPGs, such as Oblivion, Gothic 3, Two Worlds, WoW, Guild Wars, and Dark Messiah, all of which feature voice acting that is so bad or uncharacteristic that it takes me completely out of the game. I think that we are so used to the understated, naturalistic (mumbly)quality of film and tv actors that when otherwise competent professional actors are coached to give a performance that is a little over the top or exaggerated, some people think it is poor. Look at it this way…the audio diaries have nothing going for them but the script and voice acting–no visuals at all. If the actors didn’t use a bit of theatrical exaggeration to sell the script you would find them pretty dull.

Moving on to gameplay styles…In my first playthrough, I didn’t harvest a Little Sister or kill a Big Daddy until at least two or three hours into the game. When I finally did so, I felt it was not a gameplay or game mechanic that forced my hand, but a moral/ethical choice–to exist in the world from a position of relative strength at the expense of someone else; which, last I checked, remains one of the central choices of our lives in the real world.